INTERROGAR A UN JIHAIDISTA: SIMILITUDES ENTRE LA ENTREVISTA PSIQUIÁTRICA Y LOS INTERROGATORIOS DE LA CIA

Dedicado a aquellos residentes que escriben en la exploración psicopatológica; "confiesa que oye voces"

Tras los atentados en Bruselas, Istambul, París, Líbano, Nigeria, y demás, he vuelto a  releer la maravillosa conferencia Torture and the forever war de Danner  (2010) sobre el Estado de Excepción y las deficiencias de la información obtenida con torturas frente a las técnicas de entrevista no coercitivas por parte de los servicios de contarespionaje.

Este aspecto siempre me ha interesado por la participación de Psicólogos y Psiquiatras en los programas de Interrogación de la CIA que se mantiene desde los tiempos de la Guerra Fría hasta nuestros días y ha generado no poca controversia New York Times (2015).

También resulta fascinante la formación psicológica que reciben los yihaidistas en caso de ser capturados y sometidos a interrogatorio, recogidas en el Manual de Al Qaeda que se obtuvo tras los registros de Manchester (UK) en el año 2000.

Manual de Al Qaeda encontrado en Manchester

El Manual KUBARK (1963)

Profundizando en el tema, recomiendo el libro Educing Information. Interrogation Science and Art, escrito por el Intelligence Science Board (2006) que analiza The KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation Manual, realizado por la Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) en 1963 (y desclasificado en 1997).

Aunque se considera un vestigio de la Guerra Fría, muchos sostienen que se siguen utilizando las mismas técnicas en el nuevo conflicto del siglo XXI: The Global War on Terror (la guerra al terror o guerra contra el terrorismo)

Aunque estoy completamente de acuerdo con las advertencias recogidas en el DSM bajo el título "Declaración cautelar para el empleo forense del DSM-5" (pag 25) del Dr Paul Appelbaum, que advierte sobre los peligros de utilizar información sobre el estado metal en entornos no clínicos (p.e. juzgado, cárcel, etc), existen algunos aspectos muy interesantes en esta "versión" exterma de recogida de información y valoración del estado mental del sujeto.

¿Que aspectos son los más importantes en entrevistador? y ¿el en el interrogado? 

¿Que personalidades se describen en función a las motivaciones/reacciones a un interrogatorio?

Referencias Bibliograficas

Cabe destacar que el Manual KUBARK (y las técnicas que sugiere) se basan en gran medida en los estudios de  Albert Biderman, un sociólogo y notable investigador de la Air Force Office of Scientific Research dedicado al estrés asociado a la cautividad. Pero también incluye numerosas refrencias al clasico The Psychiatric Interview de Harry S. Sullivan, psiquiatra y psicoanalista que se centró en la importancia de las relaciones interpersonales.

En la extensiva bibliografía también hay diversos documentos militares pertenecientes a las interrogatorios desarrolladas en Fort Holabird, antiguo centro de entrenamiento operativo de Inteligencia Militar. Por razones de seguridad, muchas de estas referencias aparecen borradas en el manual desclasificado.

MANUAL DE INTERROGACIÓN KUBARK (1963)

El manual tiene 132 pág, 104 hasta el apartado de recapitulación Interrogator´s Checklist. Me propongo destacar los aspectos más relevantes, pertinentes o simplemente curiosos. Debido a lo largo de la entrada voy a mantener párrafos en inglés siempre que el "corta y pega" me lo permita, pues además creo mantiene un estilo muy "directo" desaparecido hoy, y que se desvirtuaría con la traducción.

EL INTERROGADOR (p 10)

A number of studies of interrogation discuss qualities said to be desirable In an interrogator. The list seems almost endless - a professional manner, forcefulness, unders tanding and sympathy, breadth of general knowledge, area knowledge, "a practical knowledge of psychology", skill in the tricks of the trade, alertness, perseverance, integrity, discretion, patience, a high I.Q., extensive experience, flexibility, etc., etc. Some texts even discuss the interrogator's manners and grooming, and one prescribed the traits considered desirable in his secretary.

[...] no purpose here, especially because almost all of the characteristics mentioned are also desirable in case officers, agents, policemen, salesmen. lumkberjacks, and everybody else. The search of the pertinent scientific literature disclosed no reports of studies based on common denominator traits of successful intcrrogators or any other controlled inquiries that would invest these lists with any objective valilidity. 

Perhaps the four qualifications of chief importance to the interrogator are (1) enough operational tralning and experience to permit quick recognition of leads; (2) real familiarity with the language to be used; (3) extensive background knowledge about the interrogatee's native country (and intelligence service, if employed by one); and (4) a genuine understanding of the source as a person. 

Perhaps the most important single trait of individuals who have demonstrated long-term success in HUMINT (human intelligence) operations is an exceptional aptitude for dealing with ambiguity. Whether this characteristic can be reliably measured remains to be seen.

Manual KUBARK (1963)

1- La “Magia” del entendimiento (Rapport): El Componente Emocional del Interrogatorio

  One gencral observation is introduced now, however, because it is considered basic to the establishmcnt of rapport, upon which the success of non-cocrcivc interrogation depends. The interrogator should remember that he and 'the interrogatec are often working at cross-purposes not because the intcrrogatee is malevolently or misleading but simply because what he wants from the situation is not what the interrogator wants. The interrogator's goal is to obtain useful information--facts about which the interrogatec presumably has acquired information. But at the outset of the interrogation, and perhaps for a long the, afterwards, the person being questioned is not greatly concerned with communicatlng his body of specialized information to his questioner; hc is concerned with putting his best foot forward. The question uppermost in his mind, at the beginning, is not likely to be ''How can I help" but rather "What sort of impression am I making? " and, almost immediately thereafter, "What is going to happen to me now?'' (p 11)

Despite the impressive success achieved by interrogators who have mastered the skill of effectively establishing rapport with a source — the celebrated Luftwaffe interrogator Hanns Scharff providing but one well-known example — methods for rapport-building continue to receive relatively little attention in current interrogation training programs. There seems to be an unfounded yet widespread presumption that all persons inherently possess the skills necessary for building rapport and therefore do not require any supplemental training to hone this ability. While the KUBARK manual has gained a degree of infamy through its association with coercive means, it also, in an interesting stroke of irony, consistently emphasizes the value of rapport-building as an essential tool for the interrogator

Although it is often necessary to trick people into telling what we need to bow, specially in CI interrogations, the initial question which the interrogator asks of himself should be, "How can I make him want to tell me what he knows?" rather than "Houw can I trap him into disclos ing what he knows? p 12)

The term “want” in this context refers to creating conditions that make cooperation appear to be an attractive, even self-serving alternative for the source rather than a characterization of the source’s efforts to escape physical or psychological force.

 Another preliminary comment about the interrogator is that normally he should not personalize. That is, he should not be pleased, flattered, frustrated, goaded, or otherwise emotionally and personally affected by the interrogation. A calculated display of feeling employed for a specific purpose is an exception; but even under these circumstances the interrogator is in full control. The interrogation situation is intensely inter-personal; it is therefore all the more necessary to strike a counter-balance by an attitude which the subject clearly recognizes as essentially fair and objective. The kind of person who cannot help personalizing, who becomes emotionally involved in the interrogation situation, may have chance (and even spectacular) successes as an interrogator but is almost certain to have a poor batting average.

2- La fiabilidad de las Impresiones 

 "Great attention has been given to the degree to which persons are able to lnake judgements from casual observations regarding the personality characteristics of another. The consensus of research is that with respect to many kinds of judgments, at least some judges perform reliably better than chance. Nevertheless, the level of reliability in judgments is so low that research encounters difficulties when it seeks to determine who makes better judgments. In brief, the interrogator is likelier to overestimate his ability to judge others than underestimate it, especially if he has had little or no training in modern psychology. It follows that errors in assessment and in handling are likelier to result from snap judgments based upon the assuinption of innatte skill in judging others than from holding such judgments in abeyance until enough facts are hown (p12-13). (Lo mismo se podría decir de la utilización del término trastorno de la personalidad por algunos profesionales) 

Y sigue: There has been a good deal of discussion'of interrogation experts vs. subject-matter experts. Such facts as are available suggest that the latter have a slight advantage. But for counterintelligence purposes the debate is academic. (Se aplica al debate entre psicoanálisis vs conocedores de la psicopatologia fenomenológica)

EL INTERROGADO (p 15)

1- Valoración Psicológica: catalogando a las Fuentes según su Personalidad (p 19)

 The number of systems devised for categorizing human beings is large, and most of them are of dubious validity (!!). Various categorical schemes are outlined in treatises on interrogation. The two typologies most frequently advocated are psychologic-emotional and geographic-cultural. Those who urge the former argue that the basic emotional-psychological patterns do not vary significantly with time, place, or culture. The latter school maintains the existence of a national character and sub-national categories, and interrogation guides based on this principle recommend approaches tailored to geographical cultures (p.19) (Con el apoyo de la CIA, los miembros del grupo de Psiquiatría Transcultural hubieran conseguido mas atencion por parte de los Comités elaboradores de los DSM)

[...] emotional-psychological schematizations sometimes present atypical extremes rather than the kinds of people commonly encountered by interrogators. Such typologies also cause disagreement even among professional psychiatrists and psychologists. Interrogators who adopt them and who note in an interrogatee one or two of the characteristics of Type X may mistakenly assign the source to Category X and assume the remaining traits. (Es frecuente asumir todos los rasgos de TLP a un individuo que se autolesiona).

Y concluye con un brillante: The ideal solution would be to avoid all categorizing. Basically, all schemes for labelling people are wrong per se (CIA dixit!); applied arbitrarily, they always produce distortions. Every interrogator knows that a real understanding of the individual is worth far more than a thorough knowledge of this or that pigeon-hole to which he has been consigned. And for interrogation purposes the ways in which he differs from the abstract type may be more significant than the ways in which he conforms. (p 20)

Sin embargo, asume las ventajas de las categoríoas: But KUBARK does not dispose of the time or personnel to probe the depths of each source's individuality. In the opening phases of interrogation, or in a quick interrogation, we are compelled to make some use of the shorthand of categorizing, despite distortions. Like other interrogation aides, a scheme of categories is useful only if recognized for what it is--a set of labels that facilitate communication but are not the same.as the per sons' thus labelled. 

Para concluir:  With all of these reservations,[...], the following nine types are described. The categories are based upon the fact that a person's past is always reflected in his present ethics and behavior. Old dogs can learn new tricks but not new ways of learning them. People -do change, but what appears to be new behavior or a new psychological pattern is usually just a variant on the old theme. [...]

Above all, the interrogator must remember that finding some of the characteristics of the group in a single source does not warrant an immediate conclusion that the source "belongs to" the group, and that even.correct labelling is not the equivalent of under - standing people but merely an aid to understanding. 

Los tipos de personalidad que surgen al focalizar el objetivo en la obtención de información en lugar de una consulta médica es apasionante. Se recomienda la lectura de las descripciones (p 21-28)

1. The orderly -obstinate character.  Una especie de obsesivo-compulsivo, con rasgos paranoides, y pasivo-agresivo, asemeja al sensitivo de Kretschmer
2. The optimistic character
3. The greedy, demanding character
4. The anxious, self -centered character
5. The guilt-ridden character
6. The character wrecked by success
7. The schizoid or strange character
8. The exception
9. The average or normal character - is not a person wholly lacking in the characteristics of the other types. He may, in fact, exhibit most or all of them from time to time. But no one of them is persistently dominant; the average man's qualities of obstinacy, unrealistic optimism, anxiety, and the rest are not overriding or imperious except for relatively short intervals. Moreover, his reactions to the world around him are more dependent upon events in that world and less the product of rigid, subjective patterns than is true of the other types discussed. (p 28)

 Las descripciones incluyen joyas como.

 If he [el interrogador] seeks to induce cooperation by an appeal to logic, he should first determine whether the source's resistance is based on logic. Emotional-resistance can be dissipated only by emotional manipulation (p 24) 

Unless a shock effect is desired, the transition from the screening interview to the interrogation situation should not be abrupt. [...] As one expert has said, "Anyone who proceeds without consideration fox the disjunctive power of anxiety in human relationships will never learn interviewing. " (p 33) 

Un aspecto interés es las características de los desertores y las de los más resistentes. son la mismas, y claramente diferentes de la personalidad media!!

Analysis of objective test records and biographical information is a sample of 759 Big Switch repatriates revealed that men who - had collaborated differed from men who had not in the following ways:. the collaborators were older, had completed more years of school, scored higher on intelligence'tests administered after repatriation, had served longer in the Army prior to capture, and scored higher on the Psychopathic Deviate Scale - pd. . . . However, the 5 percent of the noncollaborator sample who resisted actively - who were either decorated by the Army or considered to be 'reactionaries' by the Chinese - differed from the remaining group in precisely the same direction as the collaborator group and could not be distinguished . from this group on any variable except age; the resisters were older than the collaborator s" (p 31)  

2- Sobre los enfermos mentales como interrogados

(A penas un párrafo:) It is important that gross abnormalities be spotted during the screening process. Persons suffering from severe mental illness will show major distortions, delusions, or halluc~hations and wiu usually give bizarre explanations for their behavior. ~isrniisal or prompt referral of the mentally ill to profess ional specialis ti w ill - save time and money. (p 32)

LA ENTREVISTA/EL INTERROGATORIO (p 38)

1- Ajedrez en el Mundo Real: el interrogatorio como un proceso interpersonal

No two interrogations are the same. Every interrogation is shaped definitively by the personality of the source — and of the interrogator, because interrogation is an intensely interpersonal process. [...] a major purpose of the first stage of interrogation are to probe the strengths and weaknesses of the subject. Only when these have been established and understood does it become possible to plan realistically(p 38) 

Con mucha frecuencia el neófito (o el acadÉmico) se lanza a una entrevista estructurada independientemente del sujeto a valorar. El manual de la CIA está más acorde con la visión de Freud de la entrevista como una partida de ajedrez: the KUBARK manual provides a conceptual perspective on interrogation — that of an “intensely interpersonal process”.  The KUBARK manual also challenges interrogators to view each source as unique, therefore requiring judicious planning and a flexible approach tailored to that individual’s specifi c strengths and weaknesses. This is especially true when dealing with sources from a foreign and possibly little-understood culture and linguistic background. En psiquiatría general esta perspectiva está reivindicada por los defensores de la psiquiatría transcultural.

Sin embargo, existe un problema para los que consideran que el conocimiento cutural es lo más importante; existen más diferencias entre las personas de una misma cultura que entre dos culturas distintas.Existen más parecido entre dos universitarios jóvenes de dos capitales de distintos países, que entre una mujer anciana de campo y una jiven universitaria de ciudad del mismo país.While a studied awareness of culture is important in planning for the exploitation of a given source, that newfound understanding can also cause the interrogator to catch only the cultural overtones and miss the individual nuances that would prove critical to gaining compliance. 

Partida de ajedrez con la muerte (El séptimo sello, Bergman 1961)

2- Guardando las apariencias: Permitir una salida digna al entrevistado (Saving Face: Helping the Source to Concede)

Here too the importance of understanding the interrogatee is evident; the right rationalization must be an excuse or reason that is tailored to the source’s personality (p 41)

Con frecuencia se interroga al psicotico para que confiese que no toma el tratamiento o escucha voces. The Alternative Question methodology frequently employed in law enforcement interrogations specifi cally seeks to present the source with what the KUBARK manual describes as an “acceptable rationalization for yielding.” Offering an attractive option other than outright confession to a heinous crime, the alternative question allows the source to “save face” by agreeing with the interrogator’s characterization of the criminal behavior as inherently positive in intent or objective.An example of an alternative question might be, 

“Did you start the fire at your company because you wanted to hurt people or as a way of calling attention to the fact that your contributions to the company have been consistently ignored for many years and you felt you had no other options available to you?” 

Regardless of how an individual responds, there is an admission of guilt. 

"¿Has tenido tantas molestias físicas que has tenido que dejar la medicación?" ¿Ha tenido problemas la farmacia y no has podido comprar la medicación?) 

Sin embargo avisa: While often effective in eliciting a confession, the alternative question method may be problematic when it comes to collecting intelligence information. In presenting a source with two possible “alternatives” (e.g., “Did you plan to use C4 or Semtex as the explosive in that device?”), the interrogator runs the risk of undermining the objectivity and accuracy of the information obtained. In contrast, an open-ended question (e.g., “What type of explosive did you plan to use in that device?”) requires the source to answer on the basis of his personal experience/ knowledge, without the benefi t of clues or restrictions contained in the question. (Siempre mejor las preguntas abiertas que las cerradas).

3- Un Método sistemático para Interrogar: Más que la Suma de sus Partes 

Therefore, it is wrong to open [an] interrogation experimentally, intending to abandon unfruitful approaches one by one until a sound method is discovered by chance. The failures of the interrogator, his painful retreats from blind alleys, bolster the confidence of the source and increase his ability to resist. While the interrogator is struggling to learn from the subject the facts that should have been established before the interrogation started, the subject is learning more and more about the interrogator (p 42)

This passage contains an exceptionally important warning, one that an interrogator must always keep in mind: while the interrogator is watching (and listening to) the source, the source is watching (and listening to) the interrogator.

The MISY interrogators of the Joint Interrogation Center routinely invested six hours in preparation for every hour spent in the actual interrogation of a prisoner. Their approaches, including alternatives, were carefully designed. Sin llegar a estos extremos, pero se ha perdido la reflexión previa a la entrevista y posterior a la misma, a título individual o con el grupo. Algo que el denostado psicoanálisis cuidaba con mimo.

4- Anticipar Resistencias: La importancia de Ser Astuto 

It is useful to recognize in advance whether the information desired would be threatening or damaging in any way to the interests of the interrogatee. ( p 44)

Si "confesar" alucinaciones, irritabilidad, consumo conlleva un ingreso o un aumento de tratamiento de manera directa, es probable obtener respuestas evasivas o "resistencia". One productive approach is to concentrate initially on areas that do not appear to provoke concern, and therefore resistance, on the part of the source. This requires shrewd questioning by the interrogator.

Posing potentially provocative questions in the course of developing rapport/ accord with a source (or doing so too quickly after such an operational relationship has been established) can seriously — and at times irreversibly — undermine that cooperative relationship

 5- Aprovechando la tecnología: Monitorizando los Interrogatorios 

Most experienced interrogators do not like to take notes. Not being saddled with this chore leaves them free to concentrate on what sources say, how they say it, and what else they do while talking or listening. Another reason for avoiding note-taking is that it distracts and sometimes worries the interrogatee. In the course of several sessions conducted without note-taking, the subject is likely to fall into the comfortable illusion that he is not talking for the record.(p 46)

Pocas cosa más repelentes que un médico escribiendo en el ordenador mientras habla con el paciente, especialmente si se trata de médicos de familia o psiquiatras.

6- La Naturaleza Dual del Interrogatorio 

Once questioning starts, the interrogator is called upon to function at two levels. He is trying to do two seemingly contradictory things at once: achieve rapport with the subject but remain an essentially detached observer. Or he may project himself to the resistant interrogatee as powerful and ominous (in order to eradicate resistance and create the necessary conditions for rapport) while remaining wholly uncommitted at the deeper level, noting the signifi cance of the subject’s reactions and the effectiveness of his own performance. Poor interrogators often confuse this bi-level functioning with role-playing, but there is a vital difference. The interrogator who merely pretends, in his surface performance, to feel a given emotion or to hold a given attitude toward the source is likely to be unconvincing; the source quickly senses the deception.(p 48)

Once again, the KUBARK manual eloquently captures the essence of the internal dynamic of the accomplished interrogator. Reaching this state of almost unconscious competence requires a consistent regimen of training, experience, refl ection, and peer review that can take years

7- Desmontando las Resistencias

Most resistant interrogatees block off access to signifi cant [intelligence] in their possession for one or more of four reasons. The first is a specific negative reaction to the interrogator…The second cause is that some sources are resistant “by nature”— i.e., by early conditioning — to any compliance with authority. The third is that the subject believes that the information sought will be damaging or incriminating for him personally, that cooperation with the interrogator will have consequences more painful for him than the results of non-cooperation. The fourth is ideological resistance. The source has identified himself with a cause, a political movement or organization…Regardless of his attitude toward the interrogator, his own personality, and his fears for the future, the person who is deeply devoted to a hostile cause will ordinarily prove strongly resistant under interrogation. (p53-54)

Sales professionals and clandestine case officers are well-schooled in identifying areas of resistance and quickly designing a strategy for overcoming that resistance. Como muestra, las estrategias de los representantes de los Laboratorios Farmacéuticos frente al médico: Tácticas para influenciar a los médicos (Fugh-Berman & Ahari 2007, Carlat 2007)

Tácticas de los representantes farmacéuticos para manipular a los mádicos

8- Comunicación No Verbal

Human beings communicate a great deal by non-verbal means. Skilled interrogators, for example, listen closely to voices and learn a great deal from them. An interrogation is not merely a verbal performance; it is a vocal performance, and the voice projects tension, fear, a dislike of certain topics, and other useful pieces of information. It is also helpful to watch the subject’s mouth, which is as a rule much more revealing than his eyes. Gestures and postures tell a story. If a subject normally gesticulates broadly at times and is at other times physically relaxed but at some point sits stiffl y motionless, his posture is likely to be the physical image of his mental tension. The interrogator should make a mental note of the topic that caused such a reaction. (p 54-55)

The role of nonverbal cues in the communication process is almost universally recognized. Some researchers (Mehrabian, 1971) have suggested that as much as 90% of communication is transmitted via nonverbal channels (i.e., gestures, vocal modalities, etc.) Some researchers, most notably Desmond Morris, suggest there are a number of gestures that consistently communicate the same message across cultural and linguistic boundaries.

9- Question Design: Tools of the Trade 

Debriefing questions should usually be couched to provoke a positive answer and should be specific. The questioner should not accept a blanket negative without probing. For example, the question “Do you know anything about Plant X?”is likelier to draw a negative answer than, “Do you have any friends who work at Plant X?”or “Can you describe its interior?”p 62

Of all the skills required of the accomplished interrogator, none is more important than mastery of interrogatives. Rudyard Kipling went straight to the heart of the matter when he observed, “I kept six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); their names are what and why and when and how and where and who.” (Just so stories) These six questions provide the basic tools of the trade that can enable the skilled interrogator to expertly probe a source’s knowledge with laser-like precision while adroitly disguising intent.

Research in the social sciences, communication theory, and linguistics has uncovered a number of useful understandings about the potential power of welldesigned questions

10- Veracidad vs Creencia: La validez de la información recogida

It is important to determine whether the subject’s knowledge of any topic was acquired first hand, learned indirectly, or represents merely an assumption

One of the weaknesses attributed specifically to human intelligence (and especially to interrogation) is the questionable reliability of the information provided by a source. “Prisoners often lie!” is the oft-repeated mantra chanted by those who have ardently embraced the technical side of intelligence gathering (while overlooking the numerous examples of how camouflage, concealment, and deception or spoofing have successfully fooled imagery and signals intelligence analysts, respectively).

En el caso de la medicina y la psiquiatría son famosos las experiencias con pseudopacientes aleccionados para fingir síntomas (Experimento Rosenhan, 1973), simuladores que desean obtener beneficios (fraudes tras el 9/11, estudiantes que simulan TDAH), histéricos (somatizadores, conversivos), funcionales, ...

CONCLUSIONES

- A theme that recurs in the KUBARK manual is that interrogation is defined both by its intensely interpersonal nature and intractably shaped by the unique personalities of both the interrogator and the source. This observation suggests both an important avenue of research as well as a notable caution. In describing interrogation as an “interpersonal” event, it offers social scientists an important sense of how to approach — at least initially — this complex activity. At the same time, it seems to offer a reminder that, in many important ways, each interrogation is unique and therefore one must be cautious in trying to apply a strategic template that would prove effective in each case

- Because interrogation is a complex process, practitioners of the art of interrogation require extensive training and progressive, supervised experience to meet current and emerging operational requirements. In the course of an interrogation, errors in strategy, approach planning, and actions are in many instances irreversible.

- Pues lo mismo se aplica para la formación para la entrevista psiquiátrica!